Autonomous Vehicles Cars Clean Transport CleanTechnica CleanTechnica Exclusive CleanTechnica Reports Consumer Technology electric cars electric vehicles Elon Musk Green Economy Green Jobs Investment Kelley Blue Book Mass Transit / Public Transit robotaxis Technology Tesla Tesla Model 3 Tesla Model S Tesla Network Tesla robotaxis Tesla taxis used electric cars used EVs used Tesla used Teslas

Do Used Tesla Model S Buyers Believe Elon Musk About Teslas Appreciating? #CleanTechnica Analysis

Do Used Tesla Model S Buyers Believe Elon Musk About Teslas Appreciating? #CleanTechnica Analysis

April 28th, 2019 by Michael Barnard 

Lately, Elon Musk was interviewed by an MIT synthetic intelligence researcher, Lex Fridman, and made a declare he’s made before.

“Essentially, buying a car today, is an investment in the future … the most profound thing is that, if you buy a Tesla today, I believe you are buying an appreciating asset, not a depreciating asset.”

At an investor event a few weeks later, Musk went further and indicated that Tesla house owners might make a $30,000 a yr gross profit from their automobiles. That was certified with one million mile and 11 yr car lifetime, however it’s not like Musk confirmed his math on this one.

We determined to take a look at this in a couple of alternative ways to evaluate this declare. What’s the background for it? Which Teslas did it apply to? And has the used automotive market picked up on the sign?


This isn’t information, Musk is just talking more about it at current. Projecting the creation of an Uber competitor with owned Teslas driving themselves has been on Musk’s radar for quite some time. Provided that, last quarter, Tesla additionally paid off $920 million in debt, began delivery to other continents (leading to a supply delay that impacted revenues), and was spending a lot of money building its subsequent Gigafactory in Shanghai for the Chinese and Asian markets (leading to a Q1 loss and projected Q2 losses), it’s quite doubtless that a constructive notice was wanted.

A related October 2016 announcement was that each one Teslas have been manufactured from that point ahead with all the hardware, together with sensors, neural nets, and actuators to be absolutely self driving once the software program element was finalized, and that upgrading to full autonomy was going to be an over-the-air update. They’ve tweaked their processor since, however Musk has assured house owners who buy full self-driving capabilities that the processors might be changed at no cost. And new automobiles include the brand new processors.

~6 months earlier than it is in all new production automobiles. No change to sensors. That is simple alternative of the Autopilot pc. Shall be accomplished freed from cost for many who ordered full self-driving.

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) October 16, 2018

“Ordered” vs “order new” may imply some further upgrade charge for many who didn’t pre-commit, however we’ll see how that performs out. Regardless, that’s not significantly pertinent to the additional evaluation.

Evaluation of the claim

When full autonomy is accessible, clients will have the ability to choose in to having their automobiles be used for experience sharing when they don’t seem to be driving them. As the typical automotive is pushed 5% of the yr, that’s lots of time that they might be earning money as an alternative.

Let’s assume 50% of Uber costs because they don’t should pay the driving force. That’s about $1 per mile. Let’s assume a limited 10 fares a day, a mean of of 3 miles every, and operation 5 days every week. That turns into $30 per day, $150 per week, ~$600 per thirty days, and $7,200 per yr.

30 miles takes about 10 kWh of electricity at a mean of $zero.12 within the US, in order that’s $three.60 per day in further expenses at worst (most EVs will charge in low time-of-use billing durations in the midst of the night time or on free chargers as out there). That’s a price of $18/week, ~$72/month, and ~$864 per yr.

You’re virtually doubling common every day US driving with 30 miles additional a day, so there shall be further put on and tear, cleansing, and tire costs. Call it another $1,000 in expenses a yr.

$7,200 − $1,100 − $864 = $5,336 gross profit annually for something you don’t have to consider. Double the rides to 60 miles a day, it’s $10,000 per yr. Triple them to 90 miles a day, $15,000. And so forth.

Common New York taxis drive 180 miles in every 12 hour shift, or 360 miles in a day. A lot of the time they are touring to fares, not with paying clients, so let’s assume 60% of the miles are beneath fare, leaving 216 miles per day of paid journey. Take away the 5% of private usage and that’s close sufficient to 200 miles per day underneath fare. That would internet over $30,000 per yr, assuming Tesla wasn’t taking a big minimize off of the highest. Even that may be manageable with an inexpensive adjustment upward of charges.

Tesla Model 3s are coming with all of the autonomous hardware within the $35,000 version. Let’s call it $45,000 with autonomy turned on. Used Tesla Model S 60 and 70 automobiles built after October 2016 are in the low $50,000 range.

Most automobiles depreciate maybe 30% when you might have them delivered. Say your Tesla has misplaced $15,000 within the first yr, and doubtless one other 10% per yr after that. Let’s work up some numbers to see in the event you break even on depreciation.

Sure, we might get forward of depreciation by an extended shot fairly shortly with average carsharing. And, in fact, these are depreciation rates that seem affordable, but those can be impacted by the larger utility.

If I might buy a second-hand, one-year-old Tesla Model 3 for $30,000 and have it make me $30,000 per yr, that’s truly a tremendous deal. It’s debatable that folks would pay a premium for that. Even a used Model S 60 or 70 at that worth can be very fascinating.

Does the used automotive market show any alerts on this?

One of many locations we might anticipate to see some proof that sensible individuals are seeing this chance is in the used automotive markets.

In early January, CleanTechnica revealed two pieces on the used automotive market and worth for Tesla Model 3s. The primary discovered that Tesla Model 3s have been barely present within the used automotive market — by way of an analysis of Autotrader, we compared the Model three to its Audi and BMW rivals, and in addition in contrast it to equivalent-volume, cheaper automobiles.

We’ve simply updated that evaluation, three months later, to take a look at only 2019 model yr automobiles from other manufacturers and to see if individuals weren’t selling their Model 3s partially as a consequence of potential lack of their tax rebate in a pre-2019 sale. With a more apples-to-apples comparability, Tesla Model 3s are nonetheless vastly underrepresented within the used automotive market. That knowledge level might recommend that house owners are considering of the utility value of the automotive, particularly as many consumers of the Model three are probably stretching to accumulate the more fascinating automotive. The a number of hundred thousand pre-orders for the Model 3 attested to its desirability at the worth factors that Tesla was projecting it at, as does its standing as the 6th greatest selling automotive within the USA over the previous 3 quarters combined.

Then CleanTechnica pointed out the head-scratching Kelley Blue E-book tackle Model 3 resale value. Kelley Blue E-book titled it one of the best of any electric automotive for expected resale worth, however their very own revealed numbers made it clear the Model 3 would maintain its worth higher than another automotive, interval, yet wasn’t titled that method. The second-best electric automotive was the Model X in that assessment. Per the thesis, this could point out that the parents at KBB saw the worth of autonomy, however whenever you read KBB’s precise comments, there’s no indication of it. It doesn’t appear as if the resale analysts are valuing this in the same method Musk is asserting it must be or the sooner numerical work suggests it must be, a minimum of not but.

One other knowledge point that’s value assessing is a just lately launch evaluation of resales of the Tesla Model S versus different automobiles. They discovered that the Model S was the fastest promoting used automotive in its class by a considerable margin, virtually 10% faster than the much cheaper Audi A7 and A8 and with near half the time-on-market of the Maserati Quattroporte. BMW’s equally valued 7 Collection takes virtually two weeks longer to move, and the cheaper 6 Collection is in the same boat. It’s clear from this analysis that Tesla’s used automobiles are strongly valued out there as nicely, however does this send a sign but about how consumers are valuing them based mostly on autonomous taxi service?

Table courtesy

We reached out to iSeeCars for clarification on several factors to see if further poking on the knowledge would uncover something fascinating.

The iSeeCars group made some extent in their report that the Model S was probably the most heavily discounted of the automobiles, nevertheless it was unclear how that they had arrived at that assertion from the report text itself. What they’d achieved was to take a look at the typical across all used automobiles of that mannequin to look for outliers. The Tesla Model S had the greatest variance in used worth per that.

However this seemed probably aligned, as the Tesla Model S has are available an unlimited range of latest worth factors for different configurations, from the sub-$60,000 unique Model S 60 to the up-to-$135,000 P100D. That’s a a lot higher MSRP vary than its rivals, which have far more narrowly segmented product strains and therefore a number of offerings masking the identical range. Might which were the cause of the variance that iSeeCars was seeing? They seemed extra deeply and offered this fascinating insight:

“P100d has the lowest percentage of all trims to be 10% or more below market value. The 60D had the highest percentage of listings that are 10% or more below.”

This appears to suggest that the 60D had the most important variety of automobiles that have been much less desirable. This may need been an age thing for the potential house owners, but the desirability of the P100D seems to bely this. On the used market, consumers want as a lot Tesla as they will get.

Lastly, there was the question of whether or not the underlying knowledge showed something about car value with full self-driving features. If it did, there can be a visual change in statistics for automobiles between 2016 and 2017. Once once more, we requested that specific question of iSeeCars.

“Our analysis shows a breakdown of the model year, or manufactured year in Tesla’s case. 2016 and 2017 are nearly identical for days on market: 2016 is 35.8 days, while 2017 is 35.9 days. 2018 is 29.0 days.”

Once once more, the used automotive market isn’t displaying that purchasers are clearly valuing the potential for full self driving, however simply that they need the most recent, greatest Teslas.

Where does this depart us?

Musk’s assertion appears right. It might be attainable to have a Tesla with full self driving and a Tesla robotaxi autonomous ridesharing service make a good deal of money annually for Tesla house owners. Nevertheless, there’s no clear sign from the underlying used automotive market that anyone cares about that yet.

Will everyone choose in for rideshare? In fact not. But will everybody get a family car that would deliver each family member in all places they should go without Mom or Dad driving on a regular basis? Yes, and that’s value quite a bit too. In truth, it’s quite potential that many two-car households with youngsters will have the ability to have a single autonomous automotive and get the identical utility. As US governmental estimates peg the annual value of a automotive at $9,576 per yr, perhaps Musk must be touting one-car families as an alternative of Tesla Taxi!

Teslas are extremely desirable used automobiles, promoting quicker than rivals and non-competitors, and holding resale value longer in lots of instances, however that doesn’t seem to be aligned to earning money off of the longer term Tesla Taxi functionality. In fact, this is like Henry Ford in the early 20th century saying, “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”

Most individuals haven’t internalized the considered their Teslas turning into money spinners as an alternative of costs but. When that starts sinking in, the info might change. However by that point, different automobiles in all probability could have full self-driving capabilities as properly, and corporations resembling Uber might be leveraging them at aggressive worth points, leading to the identical valuation on the used automotive market. Perhaps.



Tags: Elon Musk, Kelley Blue Guide, robotaxis, Tesla, Tesla Model 3, Tesla Model S, Tesla Community, Tesla robotaxis, Tesla taxis, used electric automobiles, used EVs, used Tesla, used Teslas

About the Writer

Michael Barnard is Chief Strategist with TFIE Strategy Inc. He works with startups, present companies and buyers to determine alternatives for vital backside line progress and price takeout in our rapidly reworking world. He’s editor of The Future is Electrical, a Medium publication. He repeatedly publishes analyses of low-carbon know-how and policy in websites including Newsweek, Slate, Forbes, Huffington Submit, Quartz, CleanTechnica and RenewEconomy, and his work is often included in textbooks. Third-party articles on his analyses and interviews have been revealed in dozens of stories websites globally and have reached #1 on Reddit Science. A lot of his work originates on, where Mike has been a Prime Author annually since 2012. He is obtainable for consulting engagements, talking engagements and Board positions.

(perform(d, s, id) var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) return; js = d.createElement(s); = id; js.src = “//”; fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs); (document, ‘script’, ‘facebook-jssdk’));

About the author

Tejas Sachdeva

Tejas Sachdeva

The technical guru, with over 2 years of experience in web designing and coding. Undoubtedly the greatest technical asset present at VerfiedTasks. His work ethics are second to none, an honest guy with a huge heart who is always willing to help others. He discovered the Blockchain world at the very start and being his usual self who is always ready to explore and learn, he began doing his own research which has provided him with a ton of knowledge in this department. His helping nature is what motivated us to start this small initiative known as VerifiedTasks.